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Id: 92495
Status: open
Priority: 0/
Queue: MooseX-Getopt
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Owner: Nobody in particular
Requestors: demerphq [...] gmail.com
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  Sun Jan 26 22:56:46 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Ticket created
Subject: MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 11:56:30 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
Getopt::Long includes a "standard" template for using Getopt::Long with Pod::Usage, in particular it recommends that users support the following: my $man = 0; my $help = 0; GetOptions('help|?' => \$help, man => \$man) or pod2usage(2); pod2usage(1) if $help; pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) if $man; MooseX-Getopt does not follow the recommendation to support "--man". This means there is no easy way other than "perldoc" to view full manuals for MooseX-Getopt based scripts. I consider this a bug as perldoc does not show the pod file correctly as compared to supporting the --man option. Obviously one can manually add such support to a script, but it seems an unnecessary requirement to force everyone to do this. Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt scripts have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 years or more) Note this parameter is especially useful on *non* *nix systems where man does not exist. Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 00:08:29 2014 ether [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:08:09 -0800
To: demerphq via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Karen Etheridge <ether [...] cpan.org>
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt scripts > have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" > compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 > years or more)
I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should result in the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
  Mon Jan 27 00:08:31 2014 The RT System itself - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'
  Mon Jan 27 00:14:11 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 13:14:02 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt scripts >> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >> years or more)
> > I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should result in > the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) does. The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application either. Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 08:53:18 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt scripts >>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>> years or more)
>> >> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should result in >> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
> > Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) does. > > The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the > executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application > either.
Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would fulfill your needs? - Stevan
  Mon Jan 27 08:56:57 2014 DAMS [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added
On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote: Show quoted text
> > On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- > Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >
> > Queue: MooseX-Getopt > > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > > On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT > > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
> >> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > >> > >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
> >>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt > >>> scripts > >>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" > >>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 > >>> years or more)
> >> > >> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should > >> result in > >> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
> > > > Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) > > does. > > > > The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the > > executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application > > either.
> > Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the > way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will > MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by > inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). > > I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to > have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage > (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would > fulfill your needs? > > - Stevan
MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
  Mon Jan 27 09:02:53 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:02:32 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>
>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>> scripts >>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>> years or more)
>>>> >>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>> result in >>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>> >>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>> does. >>> >>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>> either.
>> >> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >> >> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >> fulfill your needs? >> >> - Stevan
> > MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. > > Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support. - Stevan
  Mon Jan 27 09:06:04 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:05:46 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 21:53, Stevan Little via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >
>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt scripts >>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>> years or more)
>>> >>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should result in >>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>> >> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) does. >> >> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >> either.
> > Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes).
Sorry, I should have said that this was against MooseX::Getopt::GLD. Show quoted text
> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would fulfill your needs?
Yes, indeed. Thanks. Perhaps MooseX::Getopt should mention this module and even maybe recommend it? I personally consider the stub template in Getopt::Long to be normative in terms of what a well behaved Perl application should support, and I consider it a bug that MooseX::Getopt doesn't support it. If the module documented that well behaved apps should use MooseX::Getopt::Usage then that would totally resolve my concerns. Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:07:15 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:07:02 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >
>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>> >>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>
>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>> scripts >>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>> years or more)
>>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>> result in >>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>> >>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>> does. >>>> >>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>> either.
>>> >>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>> >>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>> fulfill your needs? >>> >>> - Stevan
>> >> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >> >> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
> > Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful if you documented this. :-) Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:11:16 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:10:58 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>
>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>
>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>> result in >>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>> >>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>> does. >>>>> >>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>> either.
>>>> >>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>> >>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>> fulfill your needs? >>>> >>>> - Stevan
>>> >>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>> >>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>> >> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
> > To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful > if you documented this. :-) >
Haha, okay, I will throw something together then. - Stevan
  Mon Jan 27 09:21:57 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:21:40 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 22:11, Stevan Little via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >
>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT >> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> >>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>
>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>>> >>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>
>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>> >>>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>>> result in >>>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>>> >>>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>>> does. >>>>>> >>>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>>> either.
>>>>> >>>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>>> >>>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>>> fulfill your needs? >>>>> >>>>> - Stevan
>>>> >>>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>>> >>>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>>> >>> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
>> >> To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful >> if you documented this. :-) >>
> > Haha, okay, I will throw something together then.
Cheers man. Much obliged. Beer++ next you visit! Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:31:09 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:30:53 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On 27 January 2014 22:11, Stevan Little via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>
>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT >>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>
>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>
>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>>>> result in >>>>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>>>> does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>>>> either.
>>>>>> >>>>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>>>> >>>>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>>>> fulfill your needs? >>>>>> >>>>>> - Stevan
>>>>> >>>>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>>>> >>>> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
>>> >>> To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful >>> if you documented this. :-) >>>
>> >> Haha, okay, I will throw something together then.
> > Cheers man. Much obliged. Beer++ next you visit!
Cool, I like mine Belgian. https://github.com/moose/MooseX-Getopt/commit/faf61aa3d80ef05acce5e15810e143287d9ea98a Good enough ^^ - Stevan
  Mon Jan 27 09:34:52 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:34:39 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 22:31, Stevan Little via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >
>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> On 27 January 2014 22:11, Stevan Little via RT >> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> >>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>
>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT >>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>
>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>>>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>>>>> result in >>>>>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>>>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>>>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>>>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>>>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>>>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>>>>> fulfill your needs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Stevan
>>>>>> >>>>>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>>>>> >>>>> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
>>>> >>>> To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful >>>> if you documented this. :-) >>>>
>>> >>> Haha, okay, I will throw something together then.
>> >> Cheers man. Much obliged. Beer++ next you visit!
> > Cool, I like mine Belgian. > > https://github.com/moose/MooseX-Getopt/commit/faf61aa3d80ef05acce5e15810e143287d9ea98a > > Good enough ^^
Maybe mention the other role too? Next time you come a night at Gollem's is on me. 300 different kinds of belgian beer can't hurt. Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:36:30 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:36:13 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 22:34, demerphq <demerphq@gmail.com> wrote: Show quoted text
> On 27 January 2014 22:31, Stevan Little via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>
>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On 27 January 2014 22:11, Stevan Little via RT >>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>
>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT >>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>
>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>>>>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>>>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>>>>>> result in >>>>>>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>>>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>>>>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>>>>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>>>>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>>>>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>>>>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>>>>>> fulfill your needs? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Stevan
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>>>>>> >>>>>> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
>>>>> >>>>> To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful >>>>> if you documented this. :-) >>>>>
>>>> >>>> Haha, okay, I will throw something together then.
>>> >>> Cheers man. Much obliged. Beer++ next you visit!
>> >> Cool, I like mine Belgian. >> >> https://github.com/moose/MooseX-Getopt/commit/faf61aa3d80ef05acce5e15810e143287d9ea98a >> >> Good enough ^^
> > Maybe mention the other role too? > > Next time you come a night at Gollem's is on me. 300 different kinds > of belgian beer can't hurt.
Well, I mean, obviously 300 different kind of beers would hurt. The next day. :-) Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:40:40 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:40:24 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:34 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On 27 January 2014 22:31, Stevan Little via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:21 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>
>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>> >>> On 27 January 2014 22:11, Stevan Little via RT >>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:07 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>
>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>> >>>>> On 27 January 2014 22:02, Stevan Little via RT >>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:56 AM, "Damien Krotkine via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>
>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon Jan 27 08:53:38 2014, STEVAN wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2014, at 12:14 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX- >>>>>>>> Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Queue: MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>> Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 27 January 2014 13:08, Karen Etheridge via RT >>>>>>>>> <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:47PM -0500, demerphq via RT wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Please add support for the --man option so that MooseX-Getopt >>>>>>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>>>>> have an easy way to show the full manual and are "interface" >>>>>>>>>>> compatible with the long recommended template in Getopt::Long (10 >>>>>>>>>>> years or more)
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand -- passing the option '--man' should >>>>>>>>>> result in >>>>>>>>>> the equivalent of 'perldoc <executable>'?
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes correct. That is what pod2usage(-exitval => 0, -verbose => 2) >>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The advantages are that one doesn't need to know the path to the >>>>>>>>> executable, and one doesn't need an installed perldoc application >>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Currently MooseX::Getopt does not actually support even --help in the >>>>>>>> way you describe, only if Getopt::Long::Descriptive is installed will >>>>>>>> MooseX::Getopt attempt to provide a --help (which it does by >>>>>>>> inspecting some meta-level stuff on the attributes). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think perhaps that this makes more sense as a role, which looks to >>>>>>>> have already been done with MooseX::Getopt::Usage >>>>>>>> (https://metacpan.org/pod/MooseX::Getopt::Usage). Perhaps this would >>>>>>>> fulfill your needs? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Stevan
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> MooX::Options is meant to work with Moose, Moo, and Mouse. I think it handles pretty well the --man and --help options. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe worth checking out see if it fits your needs ?
>>>>>> >>>>>> Honestly, the API provided by MooX::Options is better than MooseX::Getopt too. MooseX::Getopt was originally just a cute, quick hack I did in the early days of Moose to show people how powerful the meta-layer could be and how easily it could be leveraged to automate simple stuff like command line parameters. It was not really written out of any real need for robust command line parameter handling, so it has always kind of lacked some proper CLI feature support.
>>>>> >>>>> To avoid further arguments with colleagues I would be ever so grateful >>>>> if you documented this. :-) >>>>>
>>>> >>>> Haha, okay, I will throw something together then.
>>> >>> Cheers man. Much obliged. Beer++ next you visit!
>> >> Cool, I like mine Belgian. >> >> https://github.com/moose/MooseX-Getopt/commit/faf61aa3d80ef05acce5e15810e143287d9ea98a >> >> Good enough ^^
> > Maybe mention the other role too?
Which one, MooseX::Getopt::Usage? That was already listed in there actually. Show quoted text
> > Next time you come a night at Gollem's is on me. 300 different kinds > of belgian beer can't hurt. >
Nice! I will take you up on that. - Stevan
  Mon Jan 27 09:42:44 2014 demerphq [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 22:42:31 +0800
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: demerphq <demerphq [...] gmail.com>
On 27 January 2014 22:40, Stevan Little via RT <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > > On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:34 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> Maybe mention the other role too?
> > Which one, MooseX::Getopt::Usage? That was already listed in there actually.
Doh. I shall return to the bowels of regex engine where I belong. :-) Show quoted text
>> >> Next time you come a night at Gollem's is on me. 300 different kinds >> of belgian beer can't hurt. >>
> > Nice! I will take you up on that.
Deal. Let me know when you want to come over. I have a spare bedroom and live about 200 meters away. :-) Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
  Mon Jan 27 09:45:15 2014 stevan.little [...] gmail.com - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #92495] MooseX-Getopt does not support "man" option as recommend in Getopt::Long
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:44:57 -0500
To: bug-MooseX-Getopt [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Stevan Little <stevan.little [...] iinteractive.com>
On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> Queue: MooseX-Getopt > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > > > On 27 January 2014 22:40, Stevan Little via RT > <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=92495 > >> >> >> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:34 AM, "demerphq via RT" <bug-MooseX-Getopt@rt.cpan.org> wrote:
>>> Maybe mention the other role too?
>> >> Which one, MooseX::Getopt::Usage? That was already listed in there actually.
> > Doh. I shall return to the bowels of regex engine where I belong. :-)
To be fair, it wasn't in the highlighted portion of the diff, so your brain was just optimizing away information it didn't need. Show quoted text
>
>>> >>> Next time you come a night at Gollem's is on me. 300 different kinds >>> of belgian beer can't hurt. >>>
>> >> Nice! I will take you up on that.
> > Deal. Let me know when you want to come over. I have a spare bedroom > and live about 200 meters away. :-)
Perfect, thats crawling distance :) - Stevan