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This queue is for tickets about the Devel-Symdump CPAN distribution.

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The Basics
Id: 91243
Status: resolved
Priority: 0/
Queue: Devel-Symdump

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Owner: Nobody in particular
Requestors: bacexp500 [...] gmail.com
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Bug Information
Severity: (no value)
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Fixed in: (no value)



Subject: Possible Bug
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 15:55:42 -0600
To: bug-Devel-Symdump [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Henry Martin <bacexp500 [...] gmail.com>
Admittedly, this may not be a bug at all. Perhaps I just misunderstand what this module is SUPPOSED to do. (It wouldn't be the first time a user reported a "bug" that was simply a brain fart.) Here is a short perl script that compiles and runs, and lists what appears to be a pretty complete symbol table: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use Devel::Symdump; my $SOMEDATA = 'SOME DATA'; my $t = Devel::Symdump->new('main'); print $t->as_string; exit; I don't see my scalar '$SOMEDATA' listed in the output. It could be that I am poking around in the wrong module for what I expect to see; please advise. Otherwise, kindly file this one? Thanks Henry
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #91243] AutoReply: Possible Bug
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 21:42:34 -0600
To: bug-Devel-Symdump [...] rt.cpan.org
From: bacexp <bacexp500 [...] gmail.com>
Never mind. I see the issue: This is a LEXICAL variable, which is not stored in a hash/symbol table. I just knew this would turn out this way... Thanks, Yours truly, etc. On 12/07/2013 03:55 PM, Bugs in Devel-Symdump via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> Greetings, > > This message has been automatically generated in response to the > creation of a trouble ticket regarding: > "Possible Bug", > a summary of which appears below. > > There is no need to reply to this message right now. Your ticket has been > assigned an ID of [rt.cpan.org #91243]. Your ticket is accessible > on the web at: > > https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=91243 > > Please include the string: > > [rt.cpan.org #91243] > > in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. To do so, > you may reply to this message. > > Thank you, > bug-Devel-Symdump@rt.cpan.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Admittedly, this may not be a bug at all. Perhaps I just misunderstand > what this module is SUPPOSED to do. (It wouldn't be the first time a > user reported a "bug" that was simply a brain fart.) > > Here is a short perl script that compiles and runs, and lists what > appears to be a pretty complete symbol table: > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > use strict; > use Devel::Symdump; > > my $SOMEDATA = 'SOME DATA'; > my $t = Devel::Symdump->new('main'); > print $t->as_string; > exit; > > I don't see my scalar '$SOMEDATA' listed in the output. It could be > that I am poking around in the wrong module for what I expect to see; > please advise. Otherwise, kindly file this one? > > Thanks > Henry
Thanks for asking nonetheless. I'll add something to the docs like recommending PadWalker for lexicals.
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #91243] Possible Bug
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:02:03 -0600
To: bug-Devel-Symdump [...] rt.cpan.org
From: bacexp <bacexp500 [...] gmail.com>
On 12/08/2013 02:14 AM, Andreas Koenig via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=91243 > > > Thanks for asking nonetheless. I'll add something to the docs like recommending PadWalker for lexicals.
Andreas: I realize you are not the person to approach about this issue, but I just want to get this off my chest. Would you agree with me that we are now long past the days of limited memory and limited CPU speeds and that the tiny savings of NOT cacheing lexicals in symbol tables is, sort of, like behind us now? I mean, I cannot imagine that this simple operation could be a huge overhead hit these days, not when even the cheapest processors can perform very complex operations like virtualization! So, this seems to be a vestige of the thinking that went into making Perl very efficient... circa early 2000s at the longest, perhaps. I might propose to the Perl developers that they add a facility for lexical cacheing either to a separate set of symbol tables so as not to break existing code, or provide a separate facility entirely. Maybe these could be command line options that one might enable for deep debugging? Again, I know you are not part of that realm of the Perl software projects, but being you support a very related set of software, I thought you would be a good choice of someone to kick this idea back and forth with before pestering the folks in the Perl interpreter support area. At any rate, I value your opinion. Thanks
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #91243] Possible Bug
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:15:50 -0600
To: bug-Devel-Symdump [...] rt.cpan.org
From: bacexp <bacexp500 [...] gmail.com>
On 12/08/2013 02:14 AM, Andreas Koenig via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=91243 > > > Thanks for asking nonetheless. I'll add something to the docs like recommending PadWalker for lexicals.
Andreas: I realize you are not the person to approach about this issue, but I just want to get this off my chest. Would you agree with me that we are now long past the days of limited memory and limited CPU speeds and that the tiny savings of NOT cacheing lexicals in symbol tables is, sort of, like behind us now? I mean, I cannot imagine that this simple operation could be a huge overhead hit these days, not when even the cheapest processors can perform very complex operations like virtualization! So, this seems to be a vestige of the thinking that went into making Perl very efficient... circa early 2000s at the longest, perhaps. I might propose to the Perl developers that they add a facility for lexical cacheing either to a separate set of symbol tables so as not to break existing code, or provide a separate facility entirely. Maybe these could be command line options that one might enable for deep debugging? Again, I know you are not part of that realm of the Perl software projects, but being you support a very related set of software, I thought you would be a good choice of someone to kick this idea back and forth with before pestering the folks in the Perl interpreter support area. At any rate, I value your opinion. Thanks
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #91243] Possible Bug
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 08:23:04 +0100
To: bug-Devel-Symdump [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR [...] franz.ak.mind.de>
Show quoted text
> Would you agree with me that we are now long past the days of limited
NO! Show quoted text
> memory and limited CPU speeds and that the tiny savings of NOT cacheing > lexicals in symbol tables is, sort of, like behind us now? I mean, I > cannot imagine that this simple operation could be a huge overhead hit > these days, not when even the cheapest processors can perform very > complex operations like virtualization! So, this seems to be a vestige > of the thinking that went into making Perl very efficient... circa early > 2000s at the longest, perhaps.
A good read on the topic is Small memory software by James Noble and Charles Weir. It's a good read in that it simply deals with interesting algorithms and recipes without jumping to conclusions about where we stand. Show quoted text
> I might propose to the Perl developers that they add a facility for > lexical cacheing either to a separate set of symbol tables so as not to > break existing code, or provide a separate facility entirely. Maybe > these could be command line options that one might enable for deep > debugging?
I would suggest to approach any problem from the other end: let people know what you want to achieve, and ask them what tools we they recommend, and if there are no satisficing tools, how they would suggest going forward. Especially in the language that has such a huge repository of software it is often better to first ask for directions that have already been explored. Did you even state what kind of debugging you're after? Show quoted text
> Again, I know you are not part of that realm of the Perl software > projects, but being you support a very related set of software, I > thought you would be a good choice of someone to kick this idea back and > forth with before pestering the folks in the Perl interpreter support > area. At any rate, I value your opinion.
Thanks for your trust, sorry if I disappoint you with this answer:) -- andreas