Bug #77250 for feature-loop: Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace

Wed May 16 17:40:09 2012 mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk - Ticket created

Subject:	Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace
Date:	Wed, 16 May 2012 20:14:24 +0100
To:	bugs-feature-loop [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Matt S Trout <mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk>

the 'feature' namespace is reserved for perl core features. the 'syntax' namespace was created to have one that could be used by everybody. If you implemented this as a Syntax::Feature:: this would be usable as use syntax 'loop'; The current namespace is wrong, so the module needs re-implementing correctly and removing from CPAN. Thanks very much for releasing this though; it's very pretty and I'll be happy to see it used once you fix the namespace :) -- Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/ Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

Wed May 16 19:19:03 2012 ikegami [...] adaelis.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #77250] Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace
Date:	Wed, 16 May 2012 19:18:53 -0400
To:	bug-feature-loop [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Eric Brine <ikegami [...] adaelis.com>

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Matt S Trout via RT < bug-feature-loop@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text

> Wed May 16 17:40:09 2012: Request 77250 was acted upon. > Transaction: Ticket created by mst@shadowcat.co.uk > Queue: feature-loop > Subject: Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace > Broken in: (no value) > Severity: (no value) > Owner: Nobody > Requestors: mst@shadowcat.co.uk > Status: new > Ticket <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=77250 > > > > the 'feature' namespace is reserved for perl core features. >

Yes and no. "feature" is used by Perl, but not "feature::*", and "feature::*" has already used publicly for nine months. the 'syntax' namespace was created to have one that could be used by Show quoted text

> everybody. >

Not all features are syntax changes. Show quoted text

> If you implemented this as a Syntax::Feature:: this would be usable as > > use syntax 'loop'; >

The module doesn't seem to support C<< no syntax LIST >>. The way forward isn't clear. - Eric "ikegami"

Wed May 16 19:19:05 2012 The RT System itself - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'

Wed May 16 19:20:11 2012 ikegami [...] adaelis.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #77250] Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace
Date:	Wed, 16 May 2012 19:19:59 -0400
To:	bug-feature-loop [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Eric Brine <ikegami [...] adaelis.com>

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Eric Brine <ikegami@adaelis.com> wrote: Show quoted text

> the 'feature' namespace is reserved for perl core features.

>>

> > Yes and no. "feature" is used by Perl, but not "feature::*", and > "feature::*" has already used publicly for nine months. >

And that isn't without precedent. See: warnings::*

Wed May 16 20:21:30 2012 mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #77250] Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace
Date:	Thu, 17 May 2012 01:21:18 +0100
To:	"ikegami [...] adaelis.com via RT" <bug-feature-loop [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	Matt S Trout <mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk>

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 07:19:05PM -0400, ikegami@adaelis.com via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> Yes and no. "feature" is used by Perl, but not "feature::*", and > "feature::*" has already used publicly for nine months.

I never saw your module before. Sorry nobody explained it was wrong sooner. Show quoted text

> the 'syntax' namespace was created to have one that could be used by

> > everybody. > >

> > Not all features are syntax changes.

We created the syntax namespace so that we had a namespace that was not reserved for perl core. This was in collaboration with the perl5 porters and the pumpkings. Show quoted text

> > If you implemented this as a Syntax::Feature:: this would be usable as > > > > use syntax 'loop'; > >

> > The module doesn't seem to support C<< no syntax LIST >>. > > The way forward isn't clear.

If syntax.pm is not sufficient please discuss fixing it. This was created so that people would not release feature:: modules since the perl5 porters, the pumpkings, and the authors of CPAN extensions know that feature:: is wrong. I am sorry that your mistake was not found sooner; this is my fault. How can I help you delete this from CPAN and upload something correct? -- Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/ Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

Wed May 16 21:37:30 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added

On Wed May 16 20:21:30 2012, mst@shadowcat.co.uk wrote: Show quoted text

> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 07:19:05PM -0400, ikegami@adaelis.com via RT

wrote: Show quoted text

> > Yes and no. "feature" is used by Perl, but not "feature::*", and > > "feature::*" has already used publicly for nine months.

> > I never saw your module before. > > Sorry nobody explained it was wrong sooner.

You say it's wrong, but CPAN isn't saying "unauthorized release". What list of reserved namespaces are you using? Show quoted text

> We created the syntax namespace so that we had a namespace that was > not reserved for perl core. > > This was in collaboration with the perl5 porters and the pumpkings.

...but has never been mentioned on the p5p ml. Show quoted text

> the perl5 porters, the pumpkings, and the authors of CPAN extensions know > that feature:: is wrong.

What's wrong is that statement. Evidence contradicts it. First, for half of core modules in the root namespace, there exists a non-core namespace with the same name (e.g. warnings, strict, re, subs, overload, utf8, vars, B, PerlIO, Encode, Symbol, Socket, UNIVERSAL, DB, Carp, Thread). Some of those modules are by Porters (e.g. Andrew Main (Zefram), Vincent Pit, chromatic, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Reini Urban, Joshua ben Jore). Second, feature::qw_comments was announced on the p5p ml, and Porters even suggested improvements to it without bringing up any problem with the namespace. It was even mentioned in two other threads there since then. - Eric

Thu May 17 09:15:45 2012 mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #77250] Please move this into the Syntax::Feature:: namespace
Date:	Thu, 17 May 2012 14:15:20 +0100
To:	ikegami via RT <bug-feature-loop [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	Matt S Trout <mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk>

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 09:37:31PM -0400, ikegami via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=77250 > > > On Wed May 16 20:21:30 2012, mst@shadowcat.co.uk wrote:

> > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 07:19:05PM -0400, ikegami@adaelis.com via RT

> wrote:

> > > Yes and no. "feature" is used by Perl, but not "feature::*", and > > > "feature::*" has already used publicly for nine months.

> > > > I never saw your module before. > > > > Sorry nobody explained it was wrong sooner.

> > You say it's wrong, but CPAN isn't saying "unauthorized release". What > list of reserved namespaces are you using?

CPAN doesn't stop you doing stupid things. The CPAN community asks you nicely, as I am attempting to do. Show quoted text

> > We created the syntax namespace so that we had a namespace that was > > not reserved for perl core. > > > > This was in collaboration with the perl5 porters and the pumpkings.

> > ...but has never been mentioned on the p5p ml.

I've no idea whether they announced it. Show quoted text

> > the perl5 porters, the pumpkings, and the authors of CPAN extensions know > > that feature:: is wrong.

> > What's wrong is that statement. Evidence contradicts it.

Look at the number of Syntax::Feture:: modules as opposed to feature:: modules. Evidence demonstrates that you're in the minority. Show quoted text

> Second, feature::qw_comments was announced on the p5p ml, and Porters > even suggested improvements to it without bringing up any problem with > the namespace. It was even mentioned in two other threads there since then.

I hadn't spotted that one; once you've sorted your renaming out I'll contact the author of that one next. -- Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/ Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

Thu May 17 12:33:43 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Dependency on ticket #77253 added

Thu May 17 12:34:01 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'open' to 'stalled'

Fri May 18 15:11:24 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'stalled' to 'open'

Fri May 18 16:40:07 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added

done.

Fri May 18 16:40:09 2012 IKEGAMI [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'open' to 'resolved'