Bug #77170 for Object-Lazy: Engligh.pm, Try::Tiny and UNIVERSAL::ref

Sat May 12 15:54:09 2012 mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk - Ticket created

Subject:	Engligh.pm, Try::Tiny and UNIVERSAL::ref
Date:	Sat, 12 May 2012 20:53:54 +0100
To:	bugs-Object-Lazy [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Matt S Trout <mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk>

English.pm is almost never used in my experience, and while I entirely respect your choice to use it if you do, most developers miss the -no_match_vars thing and end up slowing everything down. I'd suggest that ideally you would either document it using $@, or using Try::Tiny - which is far superior if you're trying to do things "nicely" and traps more common errors using eval than anything else does. You also might want to look at UNIVERSAL::ref which removes the need to override CORE::GLOBAL::ref in the way you're doing - it's a neat trick but CORE::GLOBAL::* overrides are a pain in the neck sometimes (speaking as somebody who's done more than a few of them :) and while it does mean non-core XS dependencies I'd recommend it as at least an -optional- way of doing things. No reason you can't do $old_core_global_ref->($ref) inside your current ::Ref either. Other than that, the only thing I'd mention is that there doesn't seem to be any point to using Module::Build - other than complicated XS builds there's no advantage over ExtUtils::MakeMaker and Module::Build is in maintainance-only mode as a failed project whereas ExtUtils::MakeMaker is actively maintained. -- Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/ Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

Sun May 13 14:57:48 2012 STEFFENW [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'

Thu Jul 19 00:21:51 2012 STEFFENW [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added

Thank you for all your comments about this module. Show quoted text

> English.pm is almost never used in my experience, and while I entirely > respect your choice to use it if you do, most developers miss the > -no_match_vars thing and end up slowing everything down.

This module is perlcritc level 1 tested and so I use English in that way Damian Conway wrote that. Show quoted text

> I'd suggest that ideally you would either document it using $@, or > using Try::Tiny - which is far superior if you're trying to do things > "nicely" and traps more common errors using eval than anything else

does. This module is very old, older then Try::Tiny but in next release I use this. Show quoted text

> You also might want to look at UNIVERSAL::ref ...

I do. Show quoted text

> Other than that, the only thing I'd mention is that there doesn't

seem to Show quoted text

> be any point to using Module::Build - other than complicated XS builds > there's no advantage over ExtUtils::MakeMaker and Module::Build is in > maintainance-only mode as a failed project whereas

The reason I use Module::Build is trhat I run "Build ppmdist" and "Build ppd" because I build module on Windows and use them in ActiveState Perl. I could not found ppm support in Distzilla neither in Module::Install I tried last days.

Thu Jul 19 06:52:58 2012 mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #77170] Engligh.pm, Try::Tiny and UNIVERSAL::ref
Date:	Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:52:45 +0100
To:	Steffen Winkler via RT <bug-Object-Lazy [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	Matt S Trout <mst [...] shadowcat.co.uk>

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:21:51AM -0400, Steffen Winkler via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> <URL: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=77170 > > > Thank you for all your comments about this module. >

> > English.pm is almost never used in my experience, and while I entirely > > respect your choice to use it if you do, most developers miss the > > -no_match_vars thing and end up slowing everything down.

> > This module is perlcritc level 1 tested and so I use English in that > way Damian Conway wrote that.

I don't mind you using it internally, I just don't want it in the docs. Use of Perl::Critic is a choice and I'd rather your docs didn't make that choic for the user. Show quoted text

> > I'd suggest that ideally you would either document it using $@, or > > using Try::Tiny - which is far superior if you're trying to do things > > "nicely" and traps more common errors using eval than anything else

> does. > > This module is very old, older then Try::Tiny but in next release I use > this.

Sure. Thanks. Show quoted text

> > You also might want to look at UNIVERSAL::ref ...

> I do. >

> > Other than that, the only thing I'd mention is that there doesn't

> seem to

> > be any point to using Module::Build - other than complicated XS builds > > there's no advantage over ExtUtils::MakeMaker and Module::Build is in > > maintainance-only mode as a failed project whereas

> > The reason I use Module::Build is trhat I run "Build ppmdist" > and "Build ppd" because I build module on Windows and use them in > ActiveState Perl. I could not found ppm support in Distzilla neither in > Module::Install I tried last days.

Module::Build can create a normal Makefile.PL - using Build.PL as an author side tool but putting it in the MANIFEST.SKIP so users can install using Makefile.PL works great (I used to do that :) -- Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/ Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.

Sat Aug 18 14:17:33 2012 STEFFENW [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added

Most is done in new release 0.12 but not the ref thing.

Sun Oct 21 05:42:29 2012 STEFFENW [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added

The ref implementation is tricky I know. So it is an optional loadable package and not the default. I am not the owner of the OO code I wrap. For using UNIVERSAL::ref I have to. I do not call $old_core_global_ref->($ref); I call { local *CORE::GLOBAL::ref = $old_core_global_ref; ref $ref; } So I have not the prototype problem. At the end of 10_ref.t I test that prototype behaviour.

Sun Oct 21 05:43:06 2012 STEFFENW [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'open' to 'resolved'