Bug #29862 for CPAN: Readline message wrong?

Tue Oct 09 06:27:47 2007 MARKOV [...] cpan.org - Ticket created

The default installation of CPAN.pm (started with perl5.10.0 -MCPAN -e shell) reports: ReadLine support available (maybe install Bundle::CPAN or Bundle::CPANxxl?) Why a suggestion to upgrade when there is no error/warning? Probably, the word "not" is missing from the message.

Tue Oct 09 06:39:35 2007 MARKOV [...] cpan.org - Subject changed from (no value) to 'Readline message wrong?'

Thu Oct 11 23:16:06 2007 andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR [...] franz.ak.mind.de - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Fri, 12 Oct 2007 05:15:32 +0200
To:	bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	andreas.koenig.7os6VVqR [...] franz.ak.mind.de (Andreas J. Koenig)

Show quoted text

>>>>> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 06:27:51 -0400, "Mark Overmeer via RT" <bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org> said:

Show quoted text

> Tue Oct 09 06:27:47 2007: Request 29862 was acted upon. > Transaction: Ticket created by MARKOV > Queue: CPAN > Subject: (No subject given) > Broken in: 1.9203 > Severity: Normal > Owner: Nobody > Requestors: MARKOV@cpan.org > Status: new > Ticket <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29862 >

Show quoted text

> The default installation of CPAN.pm (started with perl5.10.0 -MCPAN -e > shell) reports:

Show quoted text

> ReadLine support available (maybe install Bundle::CPAN or > Bundle::CPANxxl?)

Show quoted text

> Why a suggestion to upgrade when there is no error/warning? Probably, > the word "not" is missing from the message.

CPAN.pm has three possible sentences there: ReadLine support enabled ReadLine support suppressed and the above that you encountered. It basically means ReadLine would be enabled if you would install the bundle. It *is* available everywhere as far as I know, so I consider it good advertisement to tell the user of this feature. Different wording suggestions welcome. -- andreas

Thu Oct 11 23:16:09 2007 The RT System itself - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'

Fri Oct 12 01:23:47 2007 schwern [...] pobox.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:23:01 -0700
To:	bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Michael G Schwern <schwern [...] pobox.com>

(Andreas J. Koenig) via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> > ReadLine support available (maybe install Bundle::CPAN or > > Bundle::CPANxxl?)

>

> > Why a suggestion to upgrade when there is no error/warning? Probably, > > the word "not" is missing from the message.

> > CPAN.pm has three possible sentences there: > > ReadLine support enabled > ReadLine support suppressed > > and the above that you encountered. It basically means ReadLine would > be enabled if you would install the bundle. It *is* available > everywhere as far as I know, so I consider it good advertisement to > tell the user of this feature. > > Different wording suggestions welcome.

The original wording can be misinterpreted as "ReadLine support available... but I'm not using it. Nyah". How about... "ReadLine support needs Term::ReadLine." The important things to convey are: 1) You can get ReadLine support 2) How you can get it I prefer mentioning Term::ReadLine instead of Bundle::CPAN because Bundle::CPAN is like drinking from the fire hose just to get a glass of water. The enabled/suppressed wording is fine. -- Hating the web since 1994.

Fri Oct 12 02:32:37 2007 Mark [...] Overmeer.net - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Fri, 12 Oct 2007 08:32:01 +0200
To:	Michael G Schwern via RT <bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	Mark Overmeer <mark [...] overmeer.net>

Show quoted text

>>> ReadLine support available (maybe install Bundle::CPAN or >>> Bundle::CPANxxl?)

Show quoted text

> (Andreas J. Koenig) via RT wrote:

> > CPAN.pm has three possible sentences there: > > > > ReadLine support enabled > > ReadLine support suppressed > > > > and the above that you encountered. It basically means ReadLine would > > be enabled if you would install the bundle. It *is* available > > everywhere as far as I know, so I consider it good advertisement to > > tell the user of this feature.

If it works well (enabled), or is suppressed (because? user flag?) then my preference would be to skip the texts. Only use texts which are sufficiently informative. * Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071012 05:23]: Show quoted text

> "ReadLine support needs Term::ReadLine."

Still, the question mark for non-geeks is why this line is present. Is this an error? So, what about: print "hint: improve your CPAN experience by installing Bundle::CPAN\n" if is_available $readline; The message apparently has nothing to do with ReadLine itself: in this environment (ReadLine available), there is a better CPAN. -- MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Overmeer MSc MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net

Tue Oct 16 09:51:22 2007 schwern [...] pobox.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:50:43 -0400
To:	bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Michael G Schwern <schwern [...] pobox.com>

Mark Overmeer via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> * Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071012 05:23]:

>> "ReadLine support needs Term::ReadLine."

> > Still, the question mark for non-geeks is why this line is present. > Is this an error? So, what about: > > print "hint: improve your CPAN experience by installing Bundle::CPAN\n" > if is_available $readline; > > The message apparently has nothing to do with ReadLine itself: in this > environment (ReadLine available), there is a better CPAN.

Adding "hint" in front of the hints to explain that they are, in fact, hints and not errors is the important thing here, IMHO. Possibly even coloring them differently. Also maybe show them just once. -- Ahh email, my old friend. Do you know that revenge is a dish that is best served cold? And it is very cold on the Internet!

Tue Oct 16 11:27:43 2007 webmaster [...] nlnet.nl - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:05:50 +0200
To:	Michael G Schwern via RT <bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	NLnet webmaster <webmaster [...] nlnet.nl>

Show quoted text

> <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29862 >

Show quoted text

> Mark Overmeer via RT wrote:

> > Still, the question mark for non-geeks is why this line is present. > > Is this an error? So, what about: > > > > print "hint: improve your CPAN experience by installing Bundle::CPAN\n" > > if is_available $readline;

* Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071016 13:51]: Show quoted text

> Adding "hint" in front of the hints to explain that they are, in fact, hints > and not errors is the important thing here, IMHO.

???? -- MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Overmeer MSc MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net

Tue Oct 16 15:08:30 2007 schwern [...] pobox.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:07:24 -0400
To:	bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Michael G Schwern <schwern [...] pobox.com>

NLnet webmaster via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> Queue: CPAN > Ticket <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29862 > > >

>> <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29862 >

>

>> Mark Overmeer via RT wrote:

>>> Still, the question mark for non-geeks is why this line is present. >>> Is this an error? So, what about: >>> >>> print "hint: improve your CPAN experience by installing Bundle::CPAN\n" >>> if is_available $readline;

> > * Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071016 13:51]:

>> Adding "hint" in front of the hints to explain that they are, in fact, hints >> and not errors is the important thing here, IMHO.

> > ????

Right now, CPAN.pm displays hints, warnings and errors all in pretty much the same way. You pointed out that this is confusing, is it an error that I don't have YAML or ReadLine support? So, the specific wording of the message is one thing, but making it clear that a message is a hint is the really important thing. -- Robrt: People can't win Schwern: No, but they can riot after the game.

Tue Oct 16 16:10:40 2007 Mark [...] Overmeer.net - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:08:34 +0200
To:	Michael G Schwern via RT <bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org>
From:	Mark Overmeer <mark [...] overmeer.net>

Show quoted text

>> Ticket <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=29862 >

Show quoted text

>>> Mark Overmeer via RT wrote:

>>>> print "hint: improve your CPAN experience by installing Bundle::CPAN\n" >>>> if is_available $readline;

Show quoted text

>> * Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071016 13:51]:

>>> Adding "hint" in front of the hints to explain that they are, in fact, hints >>> and not errors is the important thing here, IMHO.

Show quoted text

>> ????

* Michael G Schwern via RT (bug-CPAN@rt.cpan.org) [071016 19:08]: Show quoted text

> Right now, CPAN.pm displays hints, warnings and errors all in pretty much the > same way. You pointed out that this is confusing, is it an error that I don't > have YAML or ReadLine support? So, the specific wording of the message is one > thing, but making it clear that a message is a hint is the really important thing.

My question-marks are there because the message as I suggest start with "hint". And then you reply that "hint" is useful. What I would like to achieve, is to get a message on the user experience level, not the programmer's. There are only a few programmers, and even they cannot understand the logic of the current remark. -- MarkOv

Tue Oct 16 16:23:36 2007 schwern [...] pobox.com - Correspondence added

Subject:	Re: [rt.cpan.org #29862]
Date:	Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:22:27 -0400
To:	bug-CPAN [...] rt.cpan.org
From:	Michael G Schwern <schwern [...] pobox.com>

Mark Overmeer via RT wrote: Show quoted text

> My question-marks are there because the message as I suggest start > with "hint". And then you reply that "hint" is useful.

Yeah, we're having a violent agreement. -- Robrt: People can't win Schwern: No, but they can riot after the game.