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This queue is for tickets about the Log-Dispatch CPAN distribution.

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The Basics
Id: 27208
Status: resolved
Priority: 0/
Queue: Log-Dispatch
People
Owner: Nobody in particular
Requestors: imacat [...] mail.imacat.idv.tw
Cc:
AdminCc:
Bug Information
Severity: Important
Broken in: 2.18
Fixed in: 2.19

History Show all quoted text
  Sun May 20 14:58:23 2007 imacat [...] cpan.org - Ticket created
Subject: Providing Real Makefile.PL Running ExtUtils::MakeMaker
Dear Dave Rolsky, Hi. This is imacat from Taiwan. I'm current acting as a CPAN tester and running tests for all the uploaded CPAN packages daily. It seems that your Log-Dispatch-2.18 requires the installation of Module::Build, and default to "y" for install. It prevents CPAN testers from running automated tests. As a CPAN tester testing 40-50 modules per day, I really cannot test every package and check their input alone. We are running tests without STDIN input. Also because of the unstable nature of the newly-uploaded modules, we really cannot install anything onto our system during the test process. As a result, your Log-Dispatch-2.18 by default to run CPAN::Shell->install('Module::Build::Compat') always fail, entering an endless loop, using up all our CPU and system resources and preventing us from offering valuable test reports to other CPAN authors.. Could you please help solving this issue, by not using CPAN::Shell->install('Module::Build::Compat') in Makefile.PL? I have read your Build.PL. It does not seem to be complicated. It should be very easy to write a equivalent Makefile.PL running ExtUtils::MakeMaker. You may refer to my Makefile.PL as an example. http://search.cpan.org/src/IMACAT/Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.18/Makefile.PL If you really cannot provide a Makefile.PL running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, I would suggest you to remove the Makefile.PL completely so that CPAN and CPANPLUS won't look for it and get confused at all. Thank you very much. You are greatly appreciated by the large CPAN family.
  Sun May 20 15:55:50 2007 autarch [...] urth.org - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #27208] Providing Real Makefile.PL Running ExtUtils::MakeMaker
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:54:57 -0500 (CDT)
To: via RT <bug-Log-Dispatch [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Dave Rolsky <autarch [...] urth.org>
On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> As a result, your Log-Dispatch-2.18 by default to run > CPAN::Shell->install('Module::Build::Compat') always fail, entering an > endless loop, using up all our CPU and system resources and preventing > us from offering valuable test reports to other CPAN authors.. > > Could you please help solving this issue, by not using > CPAN::Shell->install('Module::Build::Compat') in Makefile.PL? I have > read your Build.PL. It does not seem to be complicated. It should be > very easy to write a equivalent Makefile.PL running ExtUtils::MakeMaker. > You may refer to my Makefile.PL as an example. > > http://search.cpan.org/src/IMACAT/Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.18/Makefile.PL > > If you really cannot provide a Makefile.PL running > ExtUtils::MakeMaker, I would suggest you to remove the Makefile.PL > completely so that CPAN and CPANPLUS won't look for it and get confused > at all.
Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply install Module::Build on all boxes doing CPAN testing? Lots of modules rely on it, so you must need it to test other things, right? -dave /*=================================================== VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog ===================================================*/
  Sun May 20 15:55:53 2007 The RT System itself - Status changed from 'new' to 'open'
  Sun May 20 16:18:46 2007 imacat [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added
On 2007-05-20 15:55:50 Sun, autarch@urth.org wrote: Show quoted text
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote: > Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply install Module::Build on all boxes > doing CPAN testing? Lots of modules rely on it, so you must need it to > test other things, right?
The same goes: Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply supply a Makefile.PL really running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, or remove your Makefile.PL at all? Everyone is doing so. You can help by following the convension that Makefile.PL is for ExtUtils::MakeMaker, and Build.PL is for Module::Build. And, no. As a CPAN tester helping the CPAN QA, I shall not follow any CPAN author's request. You should not ask a CPAN tester to adjust her/his test environment, too.
  Sun May 20 16:32:24 2007 autarch [...] urth.org - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #27208] Providing Real Makefile.PL Running ExtUtils::MakeMaker
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 15:30:07 -0500 (CDT)
To: via RT <bug-Log-Dispatch [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Dave Rolsky <autarch [...] urth.org>
On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> > Queue: Log-Dispatch > Ticket <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=27208 > > > On 2007-05-20 15:55:50 Sun, autarch@urth.org wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote: >> Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply install Module::Build on all boxes >> doing CPAN testing? Lots of modules rely on it, so you must need it to >> test other things, right?
> > The same goes: Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply supply a > Makefile.PL really running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, or remove your > Makefile.PL at all? Everyone is doing so. You can help by following > the convension that Makefile.PL is for ExtUtils::MakeMaker, and Build.PL > is for Module::Build.
"Everyone is doing so" is not much of an argument, without any evidence. Show quoted text
> And, no. As a CPAN tester helping the CPAN QA, I shall not follow > any CPAN author's request. You should not ask a CPAN tester to adjust > her/his test environment, too.
I don't know why you're taking such a rude tone with me. I simply asked "don't you already need to have Module::Build installed" to do CPAN testing. You still haven't answered that question. -dave /*=================================================== VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog ===================================================*/
  Sun May 20 23:05:37 2007 imacat [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added
On 2007-05-20 16:32:24 Sun, autarch@urth.org wrote: Show quoted text
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote:
> > The same goes: Wouldn't it be much simpler to simply supply a > > Makefile.PL really running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, or remove your > > Makefile.PL at all? Everyone is doing so. You can help by following > > the convension that Makefile.PL is for ExtUtils::MakeMaker, and Build.PL > > is for Module::Build.
> "Everyone is doing so" is not much of an argument, without any evidence.
You are right. Thank you for point it out. It's a bad habit of talking. To be precise, I should said that: based on my experience of testing and working with more than 10,000 modules, most of them, if not all, is doing so. Show quoted text
> > And, no. As a CPAN tester helping the CPAN QA, I shall not follow > > any CPAN author's request. You should not ask a CPAN tester to adjust > > her/his test environment, too.
> I don't know why you're taking such a rude tone with me. I simply asked > "don't you already need to have Module::Build installed" to do CPAN > testing. You still haven't answered that question.
Sorry if it sounds rude to you. I may apologize if this makes you uncomfortable. But, as a CPAN tester producing unbias reports, I cannot follow any author's request. I'm reporting problems "as is". This problem is to the least causing trouble to us automated CPAN testers, to people that is helping daily 40-50 modules and a total of 12,000+ modules. And, in reality, it causes trouble to people or installers that assume Makefile.PL is running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, while Build.PL is running Module::Build. This "installers" means CPAN and CPANPLUS. So, could you please remove this Makefile.PL that is not really running ExtUtils::MakeMaker, or provide a Makefile.PL that is really running ExtUtils::MakeMaker. Both ways works well. Base on examing your Build.PL, I think both way is really simple to do. Thank you very much.
  Sun May 20 23:51:54 2007 autarch [...] urth.org - Correspondence added
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #27208] Providing Real Makefile.PL Running ExtUtils::MakeMaker
Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:50:34 -0500 (CDT)
To: via RT <bug-Log-Dispatch [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Dave Rolsky <autarch [...] urth.org>
On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote: Show quoted text
> Sorry if it sounds rude to you. I may apologize if this makes you > uncomfortable. But, as a CPAN tester producing unbias reports, I cannot > follow any author's request. I'm reporting problems "as is". This > problem is to the least causing trouble to us automated CPAN testers, to > people that is helping daily 40-50 modules and a total of 12,000+ modules.
I keep asking you a question, and you keep not answering. That does seem kind of rude. I don't understand why this type of Makefile.PL is causing a problem for your test system. It should only prompt if you don't have Module::Build installed. But how can you test CPAN modules in an automated fashion without having Module::Build already installed? That is my question. I'm not telling you to install it, I'm asking a question. I'm not against making the change you asked for. But _demanding_ that I do so, and then not engaging in conversation by ignoring my conversations and acting like I'm demanding something of you is pretty darn rude, and I'm getting frustrated. -dave /*=================================================== VegGuide.Org www.BookIRead.com Your guide to all that's veg. My book blog ===================================================*/
  Mon May 21 01:02:08 2007 imacat [...] cpan.org - Correspondence added
On 2007-05-20 23:51:54 Sun, autarch@urth.org wrote: Show quoted text
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, via RT wrote:
> > Sorry if it sounds rude to you. I may apologize if this makes you > > uncomfortable. But, as a CPAN tester producing unbias reports, I cannot > > follow any author's request. I'm reporting problems "as is". This > > problem is to the least causing trouble to us automated CPAN testers, to > > people that is helping daily 40-50 modules and a total of 12,000+
modules. Show quoted text
> I keep asking you a question, and you keep not answering. That does seem > kind of rude. > I don't understand why this type of Makefile.PL is causing a problem for > your test system. It should only prompt if you don't have Module::Build > installed. But how can you test CPAN modules in an automated fashion > without having Module::Build already installed? That is my question. I'm > not telling you to install it, I'm asking a question.
CPANPLUS comes with an bundled version of Module::Build. If there is no installed Module::Build on the system, CPANPLUS will use its bundled version. While installing a module, CPAN and CPANPLUS by default look for Makefile.PL first, and use its knowledge with ExtUtils::MakeMaker to deal with Makefile.PL. If there is no Makefile.PL, it look for Build.PL, and use its bundled Module::Build and its knowledge with Module::Build to deal with Build.PL. This "knowledge" applies to several things: the output files it generated (Makefile or Build), the format of such files, and the user-preference build arguments, etc.. There are 2 restrictions to all CPAN testers' testing system: 1. There is no STDIN. Given that there are 40-50 modules uploaded to CPAN archive per day, it is not possible to attend to question prompted by each module. In fact, even if we have time and energy, for thousands of modules that we have no idea what they are about, we cannot possible answer these questions. That means the default answer must work. 2. We are not running tests as root. Newly-upload modules by their nature might have security flaw, and we do not want to compromise our own systems by helping others. So, anything by default installing another always fails. If this still does not clarify your question, please say so. I answer your question based on your question. I'm not answering from nothing. You keep saying I did not answer, which does not help. You may either: 1. supply only Build.PL and remove Makefile.PL so that CPAN and CPANPLUS won't get confused, 2. supply Makefile.PL running ExtUtils::MakeMaker and Build.PL running Module::Build. Both of these 2 choices does not seem difficult based on reading your Build.PL.
  Tue Nov 13 00:38:35 2007 DROLSKY [...] cpan.org - Status changed from 'open' to 'resolved'
  Tue Nov 13 00:38:42 2007 DROLSKY [...] cpan.org - Fixed in 2.19 added