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Id: 20772
Status: resolved
Priority: 0/
Queue: Mail-Box

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Owner: Nobody in particular
Requestors: SREZIC [...] cpan.org
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Bug Information
Severity: Normal
Broken in: 2.066
Fixed in: (no value)



Subject: Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
It seems that there's a space missing at the begin of probably all "-Option --Defined in --Default" blocks in the Mail::Box documentation. Though perldoc seems to render these blocks right (i.e. as a verbatim block), it is wrong according to perlpodspec: "A verbatim paragraph. The first line of this paragraph must be a literal space or tab,...". Pod::Simple (the base of Tk::Pod) renders according to the Pod spec, and there is's not rendered as a verbatim paragraph. Regards, Slaven
On Mon Jul 31 11:04:11 2006, SREZIC wrote: Show quoted text
> It seems that there's a space missing at the begin of probably all > "-Option --Defined in --Default" blocks in the Mail::Box documentation. > Though perldoc seems to render these blocks right (i.e. as a verbatim > block), it is wrong according to perlpodspec:
I know it is wrong wrt the docs. I had to short discussion with the author of podlators, and he was not sure whether to call it a feature or a bug: when the verbatim block is part of a paragraph the entities get handled. Otherwise, entities are not interpreted. I really want entities to be interpreted, because that is consequent. My thoughts where not immediately after Tk::POD, as you may understand. What can we do to create tables in POD which do have entities interpreted?
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: 31 Jul 2006 23:00:10 +0200
To: bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Slaven Rezic <slaven [...] rezic.de>
" via RT" <bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org> writes: Show quoted text
> <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=20772 > > > On Mon Jul 31 11:04:11 2006, SREZIC wrote:
> > It seems that there's a space missing at the begin of probably all > > "-Option --Defined in --Default" blocks in the Mail::Box documentation. > > Though perldoc seems to render these blocks right (i.e. as a verbatim > > block), it is wrong according to perlpodspec:
> > I know it is wrong wrt the docs. I had to short discussion with the > author of podlators, and he was not sure whether to call it a feature or > a bug: when the verbatim block is part of a paragraph the entities get > handled. Otherwise, entities are not interpreted. I really want > entities to be interpreted, because that is consequent. > > My thoughts where not immediately after Tk::POD, as you may understand. > What can we do to create tables in POD which do have entities interpreted?
This request seems to be beyond the capabilities of Pod. Maybe it's possible to construct tables with a combination of C<...> and S<...> (for fixed font and protected/non-breaking spaces). Or put an additional html block into the Pod (=begin html) for nicer table output. BTW tkpod can follow every word which looks like a module name by just double clicking on it, even if it's not in an L<...> element. Regards, Slaven -- Slaven Rezic - slaven <at> rezic <dot> de tksm - Perl/Tk program for searching and replacing in multiple files http://ptktools.sourceforge.net/#tksm
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:26:34 +0200
To: "slaven [...] rezic.de via RT" <bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Mark Overmeer <solutions [...] overmeer.net>
* slaven@rezic.de via RT (bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org) [060731 21:01]: Show quoted text
> > On Mon Jul 31 11:04:11 2006, SREZIC wrote:
> > > It seems that there's a space missing at the begin of probably all > > > "-Option --Defined in --Default" blocks in the Mail::Box documentation. > > > Though perldoc seems to render these blocks right (i.e. as a verbatim > > > block), it is wrong according to perlpodspec:
Show quoted text
> This request seems to be beyond the capabilities of Pod. Maybe it's > possible to construct tables with a combination of C<...> and S<...> > (for fixed font and protected/non-breaking spaces). Or put an > additional html block into the Pod (=begin html) for nicer table > output.
OODoc generates POD, but also real HTML so there is not need for the limited POD->HTML features. Show quoted text
> BTW tkpod can follow every word which looks like a module name by just > double clicking on it, even if it's not in an L<...> element.
Pod core could have decided for that, but didn't. This way, all displayers behave differently. For instance, I only link the first reference to a certain module within a paragraph, not other mentionings because that would overload the text with links which is degrading the readibilty: all these underlines or color-changes hurt my eyes. So: is this a blessing? Now, if I fix my OODoc not to use the bug of Pod::Man to get rit of the markup like C<>, I need either to process these C<> myself or figure- out which method in Pod::Simple does this work and call that beforehand. Of course, the second option is by far the best... however... my first inspection of that code didn't give me the function. Do you know what I have to use? By the way: will I see you at the YAPC in Birmingham? -- Regards, MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ drs Mark A.C.J. Overmeer MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Hi Slaven, The just released podlators 2.0.5 solves the breaking of S<< >> blocks, and therefore I can use them to format the option tables nicely (each line fully enclosed in an S<< >>. So: I do not need the bug in Pod::Man anymore. OODoc 0.94 contains this fix. MailBox 2.067 has been generated with that. Both just released. Does it work for you now?
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: 25 Sep 2006 21:46:19 +0200
To: bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org
From: Slaven Rezic <slaven [...] rezic.de>
" via RT" <bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org> writes: Show quoted text
> <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=20772 > > > Hi Slaven, > > The just released podlators 2.0.5 solves the breaking of S<< >> blocks, > and therefore I can use them to format the option tables nicely (each > line fully enclosed in an S<< >>. So: I do not need the bug in Pod::Man > anymore. > > OODoc 0.94 contains this fix. MailBox 2.067 has been generated with > that. Both just released. Does it work for you now? >
Unfortunately not. If I use pod2man and perldoc now, then the output looks right. However, this is pure coincidence, because every consecutive line pair in the option-describing block has more than 80 characters in sum, so the renderer cannot put it into one line, but creates two separate lines. Just try it: shorten the first line containing "Option" and the next line to about 35 characters each, and they will be rendered into on line. If you use another output, e.g. nroff/Postscript with pod2man Dir.pod | groff -Tps -man | gv - or pod2html then you'll see that it still does not align nicely. Show quoted text
> OODoc generates POD, but also real HTML so there is not need for > the limited POD->HTML features.
Well, this might be true, but there are a lot of sites automatically generating HTML from Pod, e.g. search.cpan.org (see <http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Mail-Box-2.067/lib/Mail/Box/Dir.pod#Constructors>), annocpan.org, or ActivePerl's documentation. What about my other suggestion, emitting a =for html block, so it looks at least OK with HTML renderers? You really don't need L<...> and C<...> entity expansion for plain text renderers like pod2text or pod2man, the difference isn't visible at all. So maybe it's best to have the =for html block for HTML and a normal verbatim block for all others. And meanwhile ask the pod-people if they could specify something better in perlpodspec. Regards, Slaven -- Slaven Rezic - slaven <at> rezic <dot> de BBBike - route planner for cyclists in Berlin WWW version: http://www.bbbike.de Perl/Tk version for Unix and Windows: http://bbbike.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:32:05 +0200
To: "slaven [...] rezic.de via RT" <bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Mark Overmeer <website [...] craneveer.nl>
* slaven@rezic.de via RT (bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org) [060925 19:46]: Show quoted text
> > line fully enclosed in an S<< >>. So: I do not need the bug in Pod::Man > > anymore. > > > > OODoc 0.94 contains this fix. MailBox 2.067 has been generated with > > that. Both just released. Does it work for you now? > >
> > Unfortunately not. If I use pod2man and perldoc now, then the output > looks right. However, this is pure coincidence, because every > consecutive line pair in the option-describing block has more than 80 > characters in sum, so the renderer cannot put it into one line, but > creates two separate lines. Just try it: shorten the first line > containing "Option" and the next line to about 35 characters each, and > they will be rendered into on line.
I am aware of this problem. Happily, the lines are usually longer. Iff POD only had a <br> equivalent :-( Show quoted text
> If you use another output, e.g. nroff/Postscript with > pod2man Dir.pod | groff -Tps -man | gv -
Apparently, the "no-breaking" what is set by pod2man is not working for groff. So pod2man is not POD conformant when used in combi with groff. Show quoted text
> or pod2html then you'll see that it still does not align nicely.
Of course, non proportional fonts. Show quoted text
> > OODoc generates POD, but also real HTML so there is not need for > > the limited POD->HTML features.
> > Well, this might be true, but there are a lot of sites automatically > generating HTML from Pod, e.g. search.cpan.org (see > <http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Mail-Box-2.067/lib/Mail/Box/Dir.pod#Constructors>),
This seems a bug in the translators: within an S<>, they should translate blanks into &nbsp; But after that, non-prop fonts are still spoling the table. Put all in C<> as well? Show quoted text
> annocpan.org, or ActivePerl's documentation. > > What about my other suggestion, emitting a =for html block, so it > looks at least OK with HTML renderers? You really don't need L<...> > and C<...> entity expansion for plain text renderers like pod2text or > pod2man, the difference isn't visible at all. So maybe it's best to > have the =for html block for HTML and a normal verbatim block for all > others. And meanwhile ask the pod-people if they could specify > something better in perlpodspec.
It's the other way around: my starting-point is texts with markup. What I need is that either * that markup is interpreted within verbatim blocks or * that markup can be stripped automatically. So: if I would may make a =for html block, then I still need the second feature for ``=for text''. I favour the first solution, But seeing your evidence, the only way-out is presumably to create my own markup-stipper :( -- Thanks for the effort, MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ drs Mark A.C.J. Overmeer MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:21:36 +0200
To: bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org
From: slaven [...] rezic.de
"Mark Overmeer via RT" <bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org> wrote: Show quoted text
> > <URL: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=20772 > > > * slaven@rezic.de via RT (bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org) [060925 19:46]:
> > > line fully enclosed in an S<< >>. So: I do not need the bug in Pod::Man > > > anymore. > > > > > > OODoc 0.94 contains this fix. MailBox 2.067 has been generated with > > > that. Both just released. Does it work for you now? > > >
> > > > Unfortunately not. If I use pod2man and perldoc now, then the output > > looks right. However, this is pure coincidence, because every > > consecutive line pair in the option-describing block has more than 80 > > characters in sum, so the renderer cannot put it into one line, but > > creates two separate lines. Just try it: shorten the first line > > containing "Option" and the next line to about 35 characters each, and > > they will be rendered into on line.
> > I am aware of this problem. Happily, the lines are usually longer. > Iff POD only had a <br> equivalent :-( >
> > If you use another output, e.g. nroff/Postscript with > > pod2man Dir.pod | groff -Tps -man | gv -
> > Apparently, the "no-breaking" what is set by pod2man is not working > for groff. So pod2man is not POD conformant when used in combi > with groff.
The non-breaking also works, but the generated postscript has proportional fonts, so lines are usually smaller. If you put everything in C<< ... >>, then it looks OK. Show quoted text
>
> > or pod2html then you'll see that it still does not align nicely.
> > Of course, non proportional fonts. >
Yes, by using C<<...>> it looks much better. But usually the width of browser windows is such that the breaking of lines does not work. As a hack, you could use =for html <div style="width:500px;"> at top and =for html </div> at the end of the options block. pod2html would generate invalid HTML and I have no good feeling about the hardcoded 500px, but in my Mozilla the output looks like expected. Show quoted text
> > > OODoc generates POD, but also real HTML so there is not need for > > > the limited POD->HTML features.
> > > > Well, this might be true, but there are a lot of sites automatically > > generating HTML from Pod, e.g. search.cpan.org (see > > <http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Mail-Box-2.067/lib/Mail/Box/Dir.pod#Constructors>),
> > This seems a bug in the translators: within an S<>, they should translate > blanks into &nbsp; But after that, non-prop fonts are still spoling the > table. Put all in C<> as well? >
Yes, see above, this helps a lot. Show quoted text
> > annocpan.org, or ActivePerl's documentation. > > > > What about my other suggestion, emitting a =for html block, so it > > looks at least OK with HTML renderers? You really don't need L<...> > > and C<...> entity expansion for plain text renderers like pod2text or > > pod2man, the difference isn't visible at all. So maybe it's best to > > have the =for html block for HTML and a normal verbatim block for all > > others. And meanwhile ask the pod-people if they could specify > > something better in perlpodspec.
> > It's the other way around: my starting-point is texts with markup. > What I need is that either > * that markup is interpreted within verbatim blocks > or * that markup can be stripped automatically. > > So: if I would may make a =for html block, then I still need the > second feature for ``=for text''.
And =for man and =for latex and ... I see. There's no "else" for "for" blocks. Show quoted text
> I favour the first solution, > But seeing your evidence, the only way-out is presumably to create > my own markup-stipper :(
Regards, Slaven -- __o Slaven Rezic _`\<,_ slaven <at> rezic <dot> de __(_)/ (_)____ Show quoted text
______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:13:55 +0200
To: "slaven [...] rezic.de via RT" <bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Mark Overmeer <mark [...] overmeer.net>
* slaven@rezic.de via RT (bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org) [060926 08:30]: Show quoted text
> Yes, by using C<<...>> it looks much better. But usually the width of > browser windows is such that the breaking of lines does not work.
It will mess-up the output of pod2html Show quoted text
> > What I need is that either > > * that markup is interpreted within verbatim blocks > > or * that markup can be stripped automatically.
Show quoted text
> And =for man and =for latex and ... I see. There's no "else" for "for" > blocks. >
> > I favour the first solution, > > But seeing your evidence, the only way-out is presumably to create > > my own markup-stipper :(
Probably, I will have to create my own markup stripper :-((( All work-arounds seem to break one of the output methods... Then the hassle to get/stay compatible :-((((( -- MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ drs Mark A.C.J. Overmeer MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
Subject: Re: [rt.cpan.org #20772] Formatting issue (no verbatim blocks)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:28:22 +0200
To: "slaven [...] rezic.de via RT" <bug-Mail-Box [...] rt.cpan.org>
From: Mark Overmeer <solutions [...] overmeer.net>
* slaven@rezic.de via RT (bug-Mail-Box@rt.cpan.org) [060926 08:30]: Show quoted text
> > But seeing your evidence, the only way-out is presumably to create > > my own markup-stipper :(
I have implemented my own mark-up stripper now. Seems to work. Released new OODoc and new MailBox using it. Let's hope everything is ok this time ;-) -- Thanks for your participation, MarkOv ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Overmeer MSc MARKOV Solutions Mark@Overmeer.net solutions@overmeer.net http://Mark.Overmeer.net http://solutions.overmeer.net
seems to work